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Kneel-In Time? Denied Holy Communion for Kneeling in Diocese of Boise, Idaho

You've heard of the great Sit-Ins of the Civil Rights Era ... Anybody up for a Kneel-In? 

My family was greatly disturbed on our recent vacation to Idaho. After driving two hours out of the mountains to attend Holy Mass, the parish priest denied all of us, my children and my in-laws, Holy Communion because we knelt to receive the Eucharist. 

It was so sad to see my little children, kneeling reverently to receive the Eucharist, and then to see the priest wagging his finger at them. I thank God I went to the Sacrament of Confession right before Holy Mass, or I'm not sure what I would have done in response to the priest's brazenness. 

Ready for some kneel-ins? Catholic Civil Rights

As you might expect, I spoke to the priest after Mass to let him know about his violation of the Church's law. He stonewalled me. He just kept saying, "I'm very aware of Canon Law." 

I emailed the priest afterwards, and he failed to reply. This began a series of emails with the Bishop of Boise, Idaho.

You can read all the emails to and from the priest who denied us Holy Communion for kneeling, as well as his bishop.  

Also, feel free to copy and paste these emails and use them if you are denied your right to receive the Eucharist kneeling. 

And also prayerfully consider whether it might be time for a reverent, respectful kneel-in to protect our Catholic civil rights!   

    EWTN Radio Interview About Being Denied Holy Communion for Kneeling

    If you would rather listen to me tell this story, here's the interview I did with Vanessa at Catholic Connection on EWTN Radio:
    (Sorry in advance that I get a bit choked up)  

    Father 's Homily Before He Denied Us Holy Communion for Kneeling

    Irony of ironies, before denying my whole family Holy Communion, father had just preached a homily on inclusion, warning about exclusivity. He must have used the word "inclusive" over 12 times -- I think "inclusivity" received more mentions than "Jesus," if you can believe it.   

    Father seemed like a really nice guy. I really didn't see it coming, until it was too late.

    My Email to the Priest, After Being Denied Holy Communion for Kneeling: Full Statement from the USCCB on "The Reception of Holy Communion at Mass"

    Dear Father [Name Redacted],

    Good morning! We met before and after Mass at St. Charles Borromeo last Sunday. As you probably remember, you denied me and my family Holy Communion while we were kneeling. 

    Here is the full statement from the USCCB on "The Reception of Holy Communion at Mass," if you like, but I have reproduced the pertinent parts below, which reference the GIRM, Canon Law, and Redemptionis Sacramentum, the instruction issued by the Vatican's Congregation for Divine Worship.

    The General Instruction asks each country's Conference of Bishops to determine the posture to be used for the reception of Communion and the act of reverence to be made by each person as he or she receives Communion. In the United States, the body of Bishops has determined that "[t]he norm... is that Holy Communion is to be received standing, unless an individual member of the faithful wishes to receive Communion while kneeling" and that a bow is the act of reverence made by those receiving (GIRM no. 160). This norm is supported by an Instruction by the Holy See regarding the Eucharist: "In distributing Holy Communion it is to be remembered that 'sacred ministers may not deny the sacraments to those who seek them in a reasonable manner, are rightly disposed, and are not prohibited by law from receiving them' (Code of Canon Law, can. 843 § 1; cf. can. 915). Hence any baptized Catholic who is not prevented by law must be admitted to Holy Communion. Therefore, it is not licit to deny Holy Communion to any of Christ's faithful solely on the grounds, for example, that the person wishes to receive the Eucharist kneeling or standing" (Redemptionis Sacramentum, no. 91).

    As you see, there is no discretion given to either the bishop, the priest, or extraordinary minister to abrogate these rules. Indults may be granted by the local ordinary to add (reasonable) options, but not take away. 

    I would be very interested in reading any documentation you have to support the legality of denying Holy Communion for kneeling. 

    Would you now be willing to allow us to receive the Eucharist while kneeling next Sunday?  



    Scott Smith


    Bishop Peter F. Christensen of Boise, Idaho

    My Email to the Bishop of Boise, Idaho After Being Denied Holy Communion for Kneeling

    Here is my first email to the Bishop of Boise, Idaho. In all this correspondence, I hope you will see that I maintained the utmost respect and charity:

    Most Reverend [Name Redacted],

    Happy Feast of the Nativity of the Blessed Virgin Mary!

    On a sad note, my family, my young children, and my in-laws were recently denied Holy Communion in your diocese because we were kneeling. This occurred at St. Charles Borromeo in Hailey on Sunday, August 20th. Fr. [Name Redacted] personally denied us Holy Communion, until and unless we stood up. I had an amicable discussion without resolution with Fr.  [Name Redacted] after Mass and followed up with the email below, in which I provided the relevant laws and norms from the USCCB, Canon Law, and the GIRM. As I'm sure you're aware, it is a violation of Church law to deny Holy Communion solely on the basis that a person is kneeling.   

    This has caused my family a pain that has not gone away. What's more, Fr. [Name Redacted] seemed to indicate, though I could be mistaken, that this denial of Holy Communion was done on your authority. 

    I hope that I have maintained a charitable tone in all this, but my family was all very disturbed. Fr. [Name Redacted] was even preaching on inclusivity during this particular Mass, but his actions were a "clanging gong" of exclusivity. Not only is my family disturbed by this, I am also worried about Fr. [Name Redacted] and those whom he shepherds. 

    I had hoped that a discussion with Fr. [Name Redacted] would emend this problem, but he has not responded to my email after several weeks. As Matthew 18:17 instructs us, "If he refuses to listen, tell it to the Church." This is why I am writing to you today--also for today's Marian feast in hopes of her intercession, who especially teaches us to kneel before the Word made flesh.  

    Would you please instruct Fr. [Name Redacted]--or whatever action you believe is best to resolve this problem--that Church law prohibits the denial of Holy Communion in this situation? And that demonstrating reverence before the Holy Eucharist, especially in these years of Eucharistic renewal, is to be encouraged? 

    With deepest gratitude for your help -- 

    In Christ through Mary and Joseph,
    Scott Smith

    Can you imagine what these guys, on the shores of Normandy beach after D-Day, would think about us being denied the FREEDOM to receive the Eucharist while kneeling? 

    Kneeling to Receive Holy Communion after D-Day, Normandy Beach

    1st Reply from Bishop of Boise After Being Denied Holy Communion for Kneeling

    Here is the first reply I received from the Bishop's Office of the Diocese of Boise:

    Dear Scott,

    Peace be with you.

    Your message has been received and it will be reviewed with both the Bishop and the Vicar General for priests, Fr. [Name Redacted].

    Sincerely in Christ,

    Executive Assistant to
    Bishop and Vicar General

    2nd Reply from Bishop of Boise After Being Denied Holy Communion for Kneeling

    Here is the Bishop's response:

    September 13, 2023

    Dear Scott,

    Thank you for taking the time to write. 

    I was confused about your email when you said you and your family did not receive because you were kneeling, but it seems you did receive when [Name Redacted] asked you to stand.  As our Church teaches when receiving communion, we are encouraged to have unity in our posture and gestures.  Perhaps in Louisiana the general posture when receiving is kneeling, but that is not the case in the Diocese of Boise. 

    Blessings to you and your family –

    As I remain sincerely yours in Christ,

    Bishop [Name Redacted]
    Bishop of the Diocese of Boise

    I'm confused by the bishop's confusion -- passive-aggressive, maybe? As you can read from the emails above, I was clear that my family had to stand to receive Holy Communion.

    Note also, the Bishop makes no response to the violation of the Church's law. 

    He also seems to speak derogatively and dismissively of Louisiana. We're not a backwater of Catholicism, Your Excellency. We're giving life to the Church than you're trying to smother. 

    My Reply to the Bishop's Response to the Denial of Holy Communion for Kneeling

    Here is my response to the Bishop's reply, in which he again failed to address the violation of the Church's law:

    Good morning, Bishop [Name Redacted]!

    I was thinking about you and praying for you this morning during Prime prayers. There was a line from the second reading from (Bishop) St. Augustine for the feast of (Bishop) St. Januarius: "To be honest with you, my obligations involve me in so much turmoil that I feel as though I were tossed by storms on a great ocean. When I remember by whose blood I have been redeemed, this thought brings me peace, as though I were entering the safety of a harbor ..."  So, prayers for a safe harbor!    

    Thank you for your response to my email. 

    You said, "As our Church teaches when receiving communion, we are encouraged to have unity in our posture and gestures." The Church's unity comes from its universality, its universal law, history, origin -- in a word, its Catholicity. Protestants have local uniformity in gestures, etc.; the *Catholic* Church provides a far greater unity.

    Speaking of the universal law of the Church, the GIRM (no. 160) and Canon Law (Code of Canon Law, can. 843 § 1; cf. can. 915) state that the conference of bishops decides the norms for postures while receiving Holy Communion. Accordingly, the USCCB states, as I provided to Fr.  [Name Redacted] (in full below), "Therefore, it is not licit to deny Holy Communion to any of Christ's faithful solely on the grounds, for example, that the person wishes to receive the Eucharist kneeling or standing (Redemptionis Sacramentum, no. 91)."

    Can you please provide me with a legal basis for this violation of Canon Law and the norms established by the USCCB? Were you granted an indult or dispensation from this norm? If so, I would just plead that properly disposed communicants be allowed to show reverence before the Eucharist by kneeling to receive Holy Communion. 

    Not following the norms established by the USCCB creates disunity, not unity. Whether we're from Louisiana or Idaho, "Jews or Greeks, slaves or free" (1 Cor 12:13) ...

    "I appeal to you, [Your Excellency], by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of [us] agree and that there be no dissensions among [us], but that [we] be united in the same mind and the same judgment. For it has been reported to me by Chloe’s people that there is quarreling among you, my brethren. What I mean is that each one of you says, 'I belong to Paul,' or 'I belong to Apollos,' or 'I belong to Cephas,' [or 'I belong to Bishop Peter' or 'I belong to Louisiana'] or 'I belong to Christ.' Is Christ divided?" (1 Cor 1:12)

    Thank you, Your Excellency, for your time and blessing!

    Scott Smith

    Conclusions: Being Denied the Eucharist While Kneeling

    Note that the Bishop never addressed the violation of Canon Law and the norms promulgated by the USCCB. This is not the meekness of the lamb. It's passive aggressive. We have to demand more from our priests and bishops. 

    The Language of the Body is the Greatest Catechism of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. 

    Why is this important? Because the language of the body is the greatest catechism of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. If the father of the family cannot teach his children by kneeling before Jesus, we are in deep trouble. 

    Why, Biblically, Do We Kneel to Receive Holy Communion?

    Okay, but why, Biblically, should we kneel to receive Holy Communion? Because we image the paschal lamb. Here's a full article on this, The Jewish Roots of Kneeling to Receive Holy Communion:

    Why Should we kneel to receive Holy Communion?

    List of U.S. Bishops, Dioceses, and Parishes Violating Church Law that Protects Kneeling

    Here is a list, provided by you, of the Bishops, Dioceses, and Parishes in the United States that are actively denying Holy Communion for kneeling and violating the Church's law prohibiting such denial:  

    • California
      • Diocese of Orange
        • St. Mary's by the Sea (Huntington Beach, CA) >> According to the L.A. Times newspaper, "Kneeling 'is clearly rebellion, grave disobedience and mortal sin,' Father Martin Tran, pastor at St. Mary’s by the Sea, told his flock in a recent church bulletin. The Diocese of Orange backs Tran’s anti-kneeling edict." 
          • I have contacted this parish on 10/5/2023 to confirm whether this is still the case or if the violation of Church law has been corrected. 
          • UPDATE: The parish priest responded on 10/6/2023 that neither he, who has been pastor there over seven years, nor his predecessor pastor would deny or have denied Holy Communion on the basis of kneeling.  
      • Diocese of San Bernardino
        • St. Kateri Tekakwitha Catholic Community (Beaumont and Banning, CA) >> According to LifeSiteNews, "The bulletin notes that the parish 'highly discouraged the receiving of [C]ommunion while kneeling down' due to unspecified 'incidents that happened in the past caused by people kneeling down when receiving [C]ommunion.'" And further, "You will also be legally responsible for any harm that your action may cause to the ministers or the people around you when taking [C]ommunion kneeling down."
    • Idaho 
      • Diocese of Boise, Bishop Peter Christensen >> according to a regular parishioner in the Diocese, not only is kneeling to receive the Eucharist prohibited (illegally), but "... per Bishop Peter of the Diocese of Boise: parish pastors are prohibited from even installing kneelers for Holy Communion because it might indicate a preferred posture for reception."
        • St. Charles Borromeo Parish, Hailey, Idaho >> you will be forced to stand to receive the Eucharist
    • Michigan
      • Unknown Diocese >> denial of kneelers for the elderly to exercise their right to receive kneeling
    • Texas
      • Archdiocese of San Antonio
        • St. Francis of Assisi Parish >> I have contacted this parish on 10/5/2023 to confirm whether this is still the case or if the violation of Church law has been corrected. 

    Please comment below with additions to this list!

    Example Email to Send to Catholic Parish to Ask Whether Kneeling to Receive Holy Communion is Prohibited

    Here is the message I have been sending to individual parishes (and dioceses) to confirm whether they are actively violating the Church's law allowing for communicants to receive Holy Communion while kneeling. 

    You are welcome to use this and adapt it to your parish, as well!

    Good morning/afternoon!  

    I have received a report that your parish is or was prohibiting parishioners and communicants from kneeling to receive Holy Communion -- is this true? I am curating a list of U.S. dioceses and parishes that are actively violating Church law by prohibiting kneeling to receive Holy Communion. Has this situation been corrected or is Holy Communion still being denied in your parish to those who choose to kneel? 


    In Christ, 
    Scott Smith

    Kneeling in the Bible

    Where is Kneeling in the Bible? Scripture Verses about the Reverence of Postures  

    In addition to the Jewish Roots of Kneeling, which I have previously linked to, here is a list of references to Kneeling from the Old and New Testaments, courtesy of

    Old Testament References to Kneeling 

    Genesis 41:43
    …and he [Pharaoah] made him [Joseph] to ride in his second chariot; and they cried before him, "Bow the knee"! Thus he set him over all the land of Egypt. 

    I Kings 8:54
    Now as Solomon finished offering all this prayer and supplication to the LORD, he arose from before the altar of the LORD, where he had knelt with hands outstretched toward heaven 

    I Kings 19:18
    Yet I will leave seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed down to Baal, and every mouth that has not kissed him. 

    II Kings 1:13
    And the third captain of fifty went up, and fell on his knees before Elijah and entreated him, "O man of God, I pray you…" 

    II Chronicles 6:13 
    Solomon had made a bronze platform five cubits long, five cubits wide, and three cubits high, and had set it in the court; and he stood upon it. Then he knelt upon his knees in the presence of all the assembly of Israel, and spread forth his hands toward heaven 

    Ezra 9:5
    And at the evening sacrifice I rose from my fasting, with my garments and my mantle rent, and fell upon my knees, and spread out my hands to the Lord my God. 

    Daniel 6:10 
    When Daniel knew that the document [condemning him to the den of lions] had been signed, he went to his house where he had windows in his upper chamber open toward Jerusalem; and he knelt on his knees three times a day and prayed and gave thanks before his God as he had done previously. 

    Isaiah 45:23
    By myself I have sworn, from my mouth has gone forth in righteousness a word that shall not return: "To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear."

    Psalm 95:6 
    O come, let us worship and bow down, let us kneel before the LORD, our Maker! 

    Prayer Kneelers for Holy Mass

    New Testament References to Kneeling 

    Matthew 8:2 
    … and behold, a leper came to him and knelt before him, saying, "Lord, if you will, you can make me clean."

    Matthew 9:18 
    While he was thus speaking to them, behold, a ruler came in and knelt before him, saying, "My daughter has just died; but come and lay your hand on her, and she will live."

    Matthew 15:25 
    But she came and knelt before him, saying, "Lord, help me."

    Matthew 17:14, 15 
    And when they came to the crowd, a man came up to him [Jesus] and kneeling before him said "Lord, have mercy on my son, for he is an epileptic…" 

    Mark 10:17 
    And as he [Jesus] was setting out on his journey, a man ran up and knelt before him, and asked him, "Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life"? 

    Mark 15:19 
    And they struck his head with a reed, and spat upon him, and they knelt down in homage to him. 

    Luke 22:41 
    And he [Jesus] withdrew from them [his disciples] about a stone’s throw, and knelt down and prayed 

    Acts 7:60 – And he [Stephen] knelt down and cried with a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them". And when he had said this, he fell asleep. [petition]

    Acts 9:40 – But Peter put them all outside and knelt down and prayed; then turning to the body he said, "Tabitha, rise". And she opened her eyes, and when she saw Peter she sat up. 

    Acts 20:36 
    And when he [Paul] had spoken thus, he knelt down and prayed with them all. 

    Romans 11:4 
    But what is God’s reply to him? "I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal". 

    Romans 14:11 
    ... For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God". 

    Ephesians 3:14, 15 
    For this reason I [Paul] bow my knee unto the Father, from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named, that according to the riches of his glory he may grant you …" 

    Philippians 2:10 
    ... That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth, and under the earth.

    >> All scriptural references, unless otherwise notes, are from the Revised Standard Version-Catholic Edition translation

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    Post a Comment


    1. Excellent post and thank you for sharing. It will encourage us when we face the same issue. Unfortunately, in a few places, the name of the priest was not redacted. Are you able to fix that? God bless you and your family!

    2. Beautifully defended! We are in a diocese in Michigan. Technically, we can kneel. There is a twisted Pharisaical response though to kneeling. A kneeler was placed for those who wished to kneel and receive on the tongue, until someone from the diocese spotted it. On our part, there was no onus placed on those who chose to stand nor did it provide an obstacle. However, the bishop called and it had to be removed. This objectively discriminated against our elderly and infirm who need the support. When our pastor spoke with the bishop, he responded that we had the right to kneel but no right to a kneeler. Such cruelty from a shepherd! Subjectively his order sends a message at odds with the bishops' much touted campaign for Eucharistic Renewal. In my mind, To deny traditional reverence while bemoaning lack of belief in the Real Presence is either bad formation or deliberate. Yes to Kneel-Ins.

      1. Thanks! I'll add this to the list. Maybe we can actually use a little "synodality" to help the cause of reverence :)

      2. Would you mind saying which diocese (and parish) in Michigan? Feel free to email me (, if you would prefer to do this privately

    3. I have had this same experience with St. Francis of Assisi in the Archdiocese of San Antonio.

      1. Thank you! I will add it these to the list. How recently did you experience this?

    4. My husband and son we also told to stand up by this priest at Our Lady of the Snows in Sun Valley. Boise Diocese is a dumpster fire! St John's Cathedral, the seat of our Bishop, went from thriving to dying over night last winter, due to reforms by the Bishop.

      1. True statement about Boise. For 2 glorious years, it was standing room only. 9 -11 Altar Servers. Superb choir. Music that lifted the heart and mind to God above (not sing-long tunes). Holy men of God at the Altar, and beautiful reverence from the pews (young & old, and the crowd of devoted Catholics without a pew kneeling on marble tiles).
        The donation money was flowing in, but that's not the way it is now (rightfully so). Summary- Liberals can't handle the beauty of Catholicism so the multitude gets tossed out.

      2. Thanks for letting people know about the situation there in Boise! Do you think a "kneel-in" would help? Any other ideas? It's time for Catholics to organize and push back

    5. Catholics in the Diocese are very reluctant to push back for fear of retaliation and persecution. He has already made so many suffer. He refuses to listen, meet, or talk. I’m shocked he responded to your letter. You got more of a response from him than most of us trying to bring issues to his attn. All he does is gas-light his flock.

      1. The diocese of Boise has an openly gay music director at one church, woke school teachers and curriculum in many of our diocesan schools, modernist liturgies at most Masses, and cassocks, Latin, and the confiteor are banned at Bishop’s Cathedral. Every time we try to talk to the diocese about a concern, we’re told that we are “ideologues.” Our kids have been through hell because of this Bishop and what he’s allowed to happen at the Catholic schools. We’re exhausted. He’s very insulated and admits that he doesn’t pay attn to any news. I think he lives in a bubble. It’s important to note that he is a closet Charismatic so this probably influences his preference for a more modern liturgy.

      2. Wow! Boise appears ripe for more direct action

    6. Bishop Steven Biegler of Cheyenne, WY ordered a priest at St. Barbara's in Powell to remove a kneeler. The priest complied

    7. The diocese where I grew up (Great Falls Billings Montana) has recently prohibited kneelers for communion and I believe ad orientem Masses.

    8. In RI the Dominican priests at St Pius V church , give communion to kneelers at the rail before the altar . Many receive communion on the tongue aswell

    9. Wow 😢💔this goes deeper than I thought. These poor people😩what recourse do they have than to make their outcry be heard elsewhere. How can they teach their children when there is confusion and conflict coming from inside the church.
      Lord help us all and hear our cry for justice. All glory to God!

    10. Also , one would think , in the year of the Eucharistic revival all hierarchy in the church would encourage all reverence showed in receiving our King and Savior in the Eucharist.
      Let us start showing we believe in the Real Presence by our posturing when we receive. What greater evangelism
      do we have that to show our reverence to our Lord!

    11. Jane Gootherts, CDA IDOctober 17, 2023 at 9:21 AM

      Thank you for your blog, Scott, sad to hear your experience and we need to know what is happening.
      I have observed people kneeling to receive at the three NO masses I attend. I receive on the tongue as do many people. At least in this area there is no prom. The churches are orthodox in teaching and reverent in liturgy.
      As an evangelical spirit filled Catholic convert, I hope we embrace the Charismatic life giving Holy Spirit as well. We are praying for God to continue to lead the Church in Truth. Praying for Bishop Peter and for anonymous 🙏✝️

      1. Jane Gootherts, CDA, IDOctober 17, 2023 at 6:10 PM

        I am concerned that this issue has been brought to divide and confuse the faithful. The churches in Idaho have permission to give communion on the hand or on the tongue. The preferred position is standing. The clergy do not have permissions to deny communion, he may have asked you to stand and then you refused. I pray that we can resolve this without allowing the enemy to divide us over receiving the Body of Jesus.

    12. Bless you Jane from Coeur d'Alene! That the faithful should receive according to their conscience and canon law is the only defensible position. I am wistful at so many passing by the Sacred Cup containing the Precious Blood without so much as a nod should they choose not to receive under both kinds.
      May we behold what we are and become what we receive.

    13. This:
      Diocese of Boise, Bishop Peter Christensen >> according to a regular parishioner in the Diocese... kneeling to receive the Eucharist prohibited."

      is false.

      Many faithful receive kneeling, as I personally have observed this many many times. Kneelers are prohibited for the purpose of receiving communion.

    14. With the Eucharistic revival and the effort and endorsement that most US bishops are giving it, hard to see why there would be those that choose this hill to die on. We all know where priests and religious have been coming from in the last 2 decades and it isn't the families that skip Mass on vacation. If the bishops want to hand off a vibrant Church to their successors, there are powerfully thirsty families that are happy to oblige. Their children won't be swayed by sing-a-longs, Masses mailed in by the clergy and youth group activities dominated by scavenger hunts. They crave what they can't find elsewhere and that is the transcendent and the sacred. Choosing what the world offers over the banal is a no brainer. Bishops who think otherwise are breathtakingly naïve. I hope some of them are paying attention to this blog.

      1. As a priest of the Diocese of Boise, I admire and support my bishop, who has the right to establish certain postures in his diocese. St. Charles is a wonderful, welcoming parish. When it comes to the pious souls who insist on receiving Communion on their knees, I don't care. But they seem to feel so much holier than all those other souls around them. Saints, or exhibitionists? As for Communion on the tongue? Basically, it means that holier than thou soul is asking me to share his/her spit with the next folks in line. Especially egregious are the ones priests call "snappers," who close their mouths on the priest's fingers. Next time, I am going to take time before Communion to explain this less than sanitary little fact.

    15. Fellow member of diocese of Boise here 👋 thank you for this! The pastor (I’m pretty sure I know who it is - we’re not a very big diocese) it has happened to my friends as well at the neighboring parish in Sun Valley. Also - what are your thoughts praying the St Michael prayer after Mass? Bishop Christiansen has just told all the priests in the diocese that we cannot pray this as a congregation anymore (I’m assuming with our priest leading the prayer?).

    16. No wonder the attendance is declining at Mass. This is the sort of thing that is being focused on? Everything has to be written in stone, doesn't it? There's religion and there's faith. Never the twain shall meet.